Bonus Episode: Spotting red flags in the Web 3 hiring process

Hi em. Hi Regan. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. I half have my office set up, so I'm hoping I'm not echoing too much, but I have the desk. I am starting to get the backdrop put into place, so I'm very excited to have this all together.

What have you been up to this week? Em, you have some beautiful paintings behind you as per usual .Um, what have I been up to this week? Beautiful paintings. Okay. The painting.

I'm obsessed. You're the second person to say this today. So I've moved all of the paintings to this corner just while I get the recording booth moved out the way. Mm-hmm. . And so everyone's been coming to them every day. And I had a woman today who just said, are you selling your paintings? And I was like, yeah, you need to.

No, I don't. I can't stop my paintings and I'm being my beautiful paintings. But one of my goals is to have an exhibition.

But yeah, so everyone's liking in the artwork, which is fab. So it is not actually strategically placed there. And maybe that one is, but not . She's strategically placing it. So that's her exhibition. She's gonna start, she's priming us. Priming us. So we already know what it looks like.

You're a marketer at heart M Yeah, we know. It's just in my blood. I can't help him. Yeah. But yeah. So how about you? What have you been up to this. Moving, a lot of moving, um, a lot of coursework. So filming a bunch of the different sessions for my upcoming Power of Web three Marketing course, which shameless plug it launches on April 3rd.

Um, so we are about six, little bit less than six weeks out. Um, we recorded the session with Clutch Wallet this week with Beck on the Fun. And that is an, it's a jam packed session and I'm super excited for it because she talks. How Web three is going to actually change not only the face of marketing, but how businesses are actually built in the new economy.

She talks about obviously the fundamentals, what we need to know about it, the differences between web one, two, and three. So it's stuff that you've heard before and that you'll need a refresher on, and then it's a bunch of new stuff that bleeds really nicely into the rest of the course. So very excited.

Hi kinda to see all these video. . Very, very excited about it. And then I edited your session, which is wonderful, and I loved it. On how to be a kickass marketing leader in Web three. Yes. I, sorry. Yeah. April. April the third. April the third. Um, I'll drop the link if anyone is interested in taking a look.

I'll drop the link in the comments after this session. Amazing. I'm very excited for this. And the big question is, Do you have a tea today? I do have a tea. Um, God

We didn't talk about this before. Do you have a tea? Yes. Oh yes. I have a C Christmas tea today. Don't have night detox. It's a little late for, for that, but I'm very, I'm all in the holidays. . It's the backlog. Yeah. . Oh, it's black tea. It's like a very standard . We have very standard English tea.

I don't know what is happening to me. Um, when can I drink coffee again? I know we're gonna go off on one and then we're gonna come back. So everyone stay on. Talk to us about your favorite drink. Drop it in the comments, what you're drinking right now. Um, hopefully it's like coffee or tea, but, you know, teach their own.

Why are you not drinking a coffee? Why are you not? I don't know, because I thought I needed to like, cleanse my adrenals and I am , I'm going through the cleanse, not the, it's not a cleanse, it's anti-inflammatory protocol. Okay. And, um, the one thing that I refused to remove because I just, it ruin like it makes me miserable, is removing coffee as much as I feel good after like 10 days.

I don't have time to feel miserable for 10 days, . I know it's not worth it, so I'll eventually go back. I'm just right now on tea. Okay. Well done. It's a good, good, good effort though. Like it takes a lot to not have coffee. Yes. Anyway, takes 11. Should we start? Yes. Let's get into it. Cool. All right. Hello and welcome everybody.

Welcome to Gabriel Web three. I am Regan. This is M. Both of us have a combined, I think like 12 plus years in the web, three space, and every single, well, actually every other week now, every other Thursday, we come together and we talk to you. The realities of being in web three from, we say the BS LinkedIn post because there are many of them to a lot of the awkwardness that ensues at conferences, the questions that we have in the space and how we navigate each and every single one of those steps.

So today we are going to talk about the red flags that you might catch when you're in the middle of an interview with a web three company, um, and that you should catch when you're in the middle of a Web three company. And how do identify those because they're a little bit tricky sometimes. Web three is a very different industry.

Uh, There are some red flags that obviously you'll know about, other ones you might not know about. So we'll go through some examples just that we've seen in our time, and then hopefully you all can take away some of these tips and tricks so that you can go and smash all the interviews and find the company that you really ultimately want to end up working for.

Amazing. Love it. So I'm gonna jump straight in there. Yeah. Token Equity. Oh yeah.  Token Equity. Seriously. Oh, absolutely. When I see comp packages on job descriptions, cuz I was writing down notes before this, a lot of mine ended up being focused on jds, right? Like, we'll go through a couple different examples, but token equity was a huge one.

And I think early days of web three that may have made sense when this was more of a passion project that people could join, right? Because it would, maybe a project takes off and you make a lot of money from it, maybe. Take off, but you're ultimately ending, you're building a better industry and you're trying to, you know, build it with these people.

I don't know these people around you, on the team. Yeah. Whereas now I'm a little bit like, nah, we're token equity days are behind us. When that is the majority of your comp package. Exactly. However, and I'm interested to see what Owen and the recruiters who are listening today think about this and, and if it comes up, but I think people who are new to, to web three coming from the tech space, Might compare it to their equity packages, like the, um, what's it called?

I don't know where you talk. Equity. Yeah, equity. Um, stock options. Yes. Stock options. That's the word. Um, and so I see people falling into the trap and falling into the dream that the founders have managed to convince them of. And so  I've fallen for this dream as well.

So like back in the early days I used to get paid in Bitcoin Cash because I worked with and that made sense because it was a top five crypto and it was always good up. It was always going down as crypto always does. So that was fine to me and I didn't mind getting paid in quick. . Now, they didn't have equity options, but as we moved into like, well, that was when the ICO boom was starting.

The further you came into it into web three, and you were offered these huge big jobs with big packages. They were offering jobs with about 60% token equity for like 40% cash, and people were going through it because they bought into this idea that I could be a millionaire. Like all these other people who got into crypto were.

And you know, when you're surrounded by all these millionaires, like the, the, the early investors, the people who have done so well in the protocols, it's difficult to like make a normal decision. Mm-hmm. . And so I actually just came off a call with a client of mine,. And, um, she was considering, um, a role and we were talking about token inequity.

Mm-hmm. , and I said, why would you put everything you've got into a high risk in.  because that's what it is. You are investing your time into a high risk investment that you don't know how it's gonna turn out. Mm-hmm. , nothing that you do in that company is gonna impact the price of that token. So what if you've done all of this work and then you get hit by a bus a year before you get the token equity?

Right? There's so many options that could happen and it might never work out. You could get hit by a bus. There's like so many things. Why would you take that instead of being paid properly for your. I don't know how you feel about that, but I, I got sucked into it early on. Um, and I was, but I never let my salary go to the back.

Like, I, I literally can't speak English today, never let my salary, um, over shined by the tokens, right? I always put the salary first and tokens were a bonus. It's very similar to the idea of you don't wanna put all your eggs in one. Like, I totally understand that people who are joining Web three, we are committed, you are excited.

You also wanna show that commitment and excitement when you're in the middle of an interview. But in a very similar way to when I first joined Crypto, everyone would ask me, do you get paid entirely in crypto? My answer was, I work in crypto all day long. Like I love this industry, but I don't necessarily wanna put all my eggs in one basket.

So no, I get paid in fiat and then I invest in crypto. But I get paid in fiat so that I make sure I am actually making money off of the, you know, 60, 70 hour work weeks that I'm putting in. Mm-hmm.  and I. Exactly. You don't want your salary. Mm-hmm. , you don't want your salary to be a high risk investment.

Exactly. Because what you need is a stupid, yeah, a stable base that you can start to build off of and then you can choose. Now, I will say token equity, like I won't nix it across the board. I will say it is a red flag that I would dig deeper into. Because if they're gonna pay you in fiat and then give it as a bonus, right?

Like a lot of companies will give that as an added, added bonus. , as long as it's not a significant portion of your comp package and you know, you, I guess feel comfortable with it, then go ahead and, and do it. Just recognize that there's a huge risk with that and you need to be comfortable with that decision because this is not a guarantee.

We are no longer in guarantee world at this point. The companies that I see offer token equity are the ones that are very small, having a harder time with funding and doing this so that they can try and get people in the door to build their project before. , they ultimately end up paying their people what they should be paying.

I mean, it's, it's very similar, right, to companies who trying to hire too quickly. It is, and it also, it comes around and, uh, shoots them in the foot later on when they wanna get more investment. Because the more, I mean, it's different in the traditional financial world, the more sweat equity you have, right?

The more people who have got options versus a salary. The higher risk it is to get further investment. Cuz these investors are gonna be looking at like, wait, how diluted is the equity? Mm-hmm. . And of course people are gonna wanna start cashing out at some point. How's that gonna impact my investment? So it's, it's kind of similar with the token equity because it, it impacts the price.

So if one person decides to sell,  through an exchange and not through an otc, right? Mm-hmm. , it's gonna really impact their investments. So it all, it's all strategic and it's all very much investment and if you don't understand that, why are you entering into agreement? That's an advanced investment discussion.

Really, that's what it is. Like if you are choosing to, the conversation I just had with my client was, what would you do when you're buying another crypto asset? Like what are the stages you go through to do your own? , that's what you need to do when you're getting offered token equity. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's very similar, right?

Like I'll kind of pivot a little bit and say I take a look at job boards, a good amount. Just like with, for what I do and the recruiters that I talk to, I like to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry, and it's very similar to these huge job titles that we see in web three. I know you talk about this a lot m and.

Decent salaries for those job titles, but when you actually pull into the job description itself, you recognize that they're gonna be working these people into the ground and give them a C M O job title, for example. But really what they're doing is a complete, pure executionary role that is probably like mid-level, fairly senior.

Exactly. And so it's, it's similar when people get bought in and they go, oh my God, for my role, I'm gonna be able to make all this money. I'm gonna. Title, but then what they don't realize is there's a huge catch 22 with you. You know, are you ready to go and build something from the ground up? Um, are you ready to be person?

Uh, what, what word am I trying to say? Are you ready to be pure executionary in your role? And like, is that actually, are you just chasing the title or are you chasing the job? Are you excited about the job description itself? Yeah, I can say Larissa's trying to tell us something here. Yeah, that's what I, I got, oh, wait to finish.

Yeah. But yeah, no, that's the thing. And so many companies that I used to advise for, I used to say, you don't need a cmo. You need a strategic advisor a couple of days a week, and you need a marketing manager. To start with the stage our businesses are, and it really just depends on the stage. And I see many women or and guys come over from the web, two space as CMOs and they just like get completely fucked over.

They're coming to the C M O role without realizing what the company's like without realizing that we don't function the same as web two. Right? We're backwards. , the companies are built very differently. There's no structure, there's no process. And they get into a role. They put all, they're all into it.

Cause that's what they're used to doing. They get their rewards in terms of financials, but they're. Completely burnt out and dead by the end of it. And they have a really bad experience and then they go back to web two. Yes. So it's very detrimental, that talent. Totally. Or then we lose that talent or they see the job title and then they realize when they get in there, actually I'm doing 10 times more than what this job title requires.

And so I'm actually getting paid less than what I really should be getting paid because I don't have the same stock options because I, you know, then what I had in, in web two. Um, because I don't have the same number of, whether it's like vacation days, like the comp packages. I know I keep going back to that, but they just vary so heavily.

So really understanding what comes with it. Mm-hmm. , the, you know, understanding what you really want in a role and whether or not the company matches those desires is very, very important. Mm-hmm. . Yeah, exactly. And I think also going back to the token equity side, quickly. Those who don't understand the token omics or token equity might may.

not tricked, but may just go in thinking it's similar to equity of a company, whereas anything you do in that company has no impact on the price. You cannot alone impact that price. Whereas marketing can impact the price of a company's valuation. Right? So it's difficult. Um, let's have a look at the. Yeah, we have a bunch of comments.

So Owen, the um, , that's a very Owen common. Owen  very Owen, the has one isn't another. Yeah, definitely. I feel like this happens all the time, though. You end up kind of, no one is saying, well, the, uh, what am I trying to say? Your, the candidate is saying what they really want. The client is saying what they really want, but they're not telling each other what they really want.

And so you end up going back and forth. Yeah. Um, because the price that they're initially quoted, price.  like you're trying to buy somebody. No. The salary that someone in is initially told, it's always flexible. I actually think that's probably the biggest thing, and Owen and I would be equally interested in your thoughts, is I have seen that it's always negotiable, right?

Like someone may say, this is our base salary and we can't go further than this. Um mm-hmm. . But some of the other side aspects of comp are negotiable, whether that's vacation days, remote policy. Work from the office. Work from home. Mm-hmm.  and office desk setup, um, budget, all of those things. Yeah, you can end up negotiating into your package itself.

Cell phone coverage, all that fun stuff. Yeah, exactly. And I think let's have a look at quickly at what Daniel says. So being excited about the role is more important than the title is Key to Avoiding Burnout. Totally agree. However, you can start off really excited about the role and it can appear to be this great, shiny, amazing thing until you get really into the company and.

and we go back to leadership, right? You need to make, you need to do your research on the leaders. You need to talk to people who've already worked with the company. You need to see how they are with other people and the way they portray themselves in public, because bad leadership in Web three ruins cultures.

Um, it's, I feel like it's, I mean, it's a difficulty in the text space as well, but I feel like it's. Monumental to whether it's gonna make or break your job because you're not padded. So when you come into a Web three company, usually they don't have layers of line managers and stuff. It's not that big unless you've gone into one of the huge exchanges where it's even worse because the exchanges work in silos from experience.

Yeah. And so you are not buffered from the founders and their tempers and their emotions and their pressure from investors. And so you have to understand that yes, you could be excited for this role. , but it's gonna require a ton of energy to manage all the people and the things that happen on a day-to-day basis.

So I think understanding that when you go into an interview, actually I think, I can't remember if Owen has discussed this before, but like the questions that we need to ask are like, How do you support your team when it is a bull market? Right? When does it's relentless, when the work is nonstop? What are your boundaries?

How do you have meetings? Like how many hours do you expect me to be online? Like how mm-hmm. , yeah. All this kind of stuff, because usually you come in as a cmo, for example, and they're ex, you're literally expected to be on 24 7 and at first it's easy to set the boundaries and then it like chips away, chips away, and someone's like, can you just check this message?

Can you just check this message? Oh, why didn't you see that message? You should have saw that message. And then slowly, you're literally checking your bloody telegram or slack or disco or whatever, four, seven, because you're so scared that you're gonna.  taken, not taken down, but like ridiculed for it and so you can get into this trap.

So everything can look nice on the outside, every anybody, especially not just stereotype, but I've spoken to American companies and they're very good at like putting on a shiny show.  totally, totally. Compared to you. I feel like Europeans are very. Not necessarily straightforward, but they're not as enthusiastic.

Well, they also are brought up with this idea that you have to be charismatic in every single sale like conversation that you have. And every conversation is a sales conversation. Um, yeah. And so it can be very difficult with an American to understand. We, we'll stop talking about Americans after this. I am Americans, so I feel like I can have this conversation.

Yeah, you can , but it can be hard to really understand, like to read through.  the lines. I will say English can be very difficult with that too, because sometimes you, oh yeah. Not say exactly what you're think. They'd be around the bush a lot. Yeah, . Totally do One thing though, that I was gonna say about job titles, and then we'll go on Risa to your comment.

Um, but the last thing on job titles is I would be careful if a company is looking for a C M O but doesn't actually have any of the other roles in place. The big trap I see these companies fall into is they wanna bring someone a powerhouse in, right? That's the word that they end up using. We wanna bring a powerhouse.

We want someone rockstar. Rockstar, like all that. But what ends up happening is you bring that person in as the cmo and then the company, it kind of outgrows them. Mm-hmm. , some people can grow with a company and are in a great position to do so. Other people aren't necessarily, and so then what happens is you can't bring anyone in on top of a cmo.

They then need to change their job title, which a lot of people have this ego tied to their job.  or they will leave. And I think that's super disruptive. And so instead, bring in a marketing manager, find somebody who has more experience. There are people all over the world that have the experience that you're looking for and are great with the title of a marketing manager.

And then they grow maybe into a director and a vp and they can kind of fit into the, the structure of the company as it grows. But when you peg someone as a CMO and you have no one else on the team yet, , it's super disruptive when it ultimately needs to end up changing. Mm-hmm. . And so that is my one thing.

You just wanna make sure that you are, you recognize that when you come into the company, um, before you ultimately join. Yeah, I think this is a great point. Definitely. And it's actually something that I've been part of, I guess, like mm-hmm. , I got hired, and this is why I started saying, you don't need CM O.

It's like, exactly. Marketing manager, I can't do all of this for you. This is not what I signed up for. Mm-hmm. So, yeah. , we'll move on from that point. Larissa, um, she's talking about, they didn't have the camera on. Okay. So this is very crypto. It's like super and having, having anon teams and it's a massive red flag.

Huge. Why would you, why would you be employing someone? Like if somebody didn't turn the camera on for me when I was employing them, I'd be like, fuck off. . Like, I don't wanna talk to you then. And it's so great point. Reagan. It's so bizarre to me. It's like, would you walk up to someone with like a hood on your face so they can't see you with like sunglasses and like a mask

No, totally. I will say, so there are one of the buckets that I created prior to this are things that people say in interviews that make me go, Nope. Um, this ain't happening. Yeah. And one of those would definitely be, we're not turning our camera on because of privacy. Because to your point, em. , I need to know who I'm working with.

I need to know who I am about whose team I'm about to join. It's very difficult already to understand context clues and body language when you're over Zoom or any other kind of video chat. So how am I supposed to do that if all I can hear is your voice and now you want me to sign up to work 40, you know, to 80 hour weeks?

No, please don't work that much. But like, you know what I mean? Um, and so, Another behavior that I see a lot, and that kind of grinds my gears, is when people only refer to each other on the team by their discord handle. What? I've never seen this. Oh yeah. I can't do anything. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I hear it pretty often.

And immediately go, what? I, but it's very crypto. It's super crypto. So like, again, if you're ready to do this as a passion project and you're excited about it and like that's the environment that you wanna live in, because sometimes more technical roles, they are okay with that. But on the creative side of the house, like the people side of the house, the marketing side, it's, that's not the way we vibe.

Well, I was gonna say this. So I hired two developers for Payon, my other business. Mm-hmm.  and. The first question was that I had for the developer. He got referred to me and the person who referred, actually Emil, referred him to me. I said, what was his name? And he was like, I dunno, . I was like, are you fucking real?

So I this guy, and I was like, Hey, Emil referred you to me. What's your name? , can you get on a call? And he said, I don't really do well with calls. I said, well, I'm not gonna work with you if we can't get on a call, right? But I've heard how good you are. I'd really like to have a chat with you. And then we got on a chat.

And then here's, here's a funny, he is an interesting character, uh, young guy. And, um, I sent him a contract. I've never had a contract before. Well, if you're working with me, you're having a contract and you sign an nda. Right. That's how it works. Okay. Can you send me an invoice? I don't do invoices. Yes, you do.

If you work with me, you don't do invoices because we have a real business  that has to do accounting, so. Exactly. It's really interesting that, um,  that this is the mindset that they have, but it's because they, like the crypto space is young. The degen space is typically, the demographic is slanted towards younger generations and the people working in it are younger.

So of course they think this is, they don't, this is a bizarre concept to them having like a real contract, showing their face, having their real name. It's like not normal for them. Whereas to us who are like not Degens and not Gen Z, it's very bizarre. Yeah. . Now, I will say, if it's a question of accommodations, meaning if somebody is more introverted, right, and they mm-hmm  are on a team call and they wanna turn off their camera, that is a super different story than jumping into an interview because I think it's important for companies to make those accommodations for people who are introverted, extroverted, anywhere on the neuro divergent spectrum.

But when it comes to interviews, there are these red flags of we're not turning our camera on because of privacy. I don't wanna do invoices. Like if, if a company didn't want you to sign a contract, I would say red flag. If a founder starts talking about how I had this, like you see it a lot like in job descriptions, web three moves really fast and we need somebody to be adaptable to that change.

That's great, actually. That's a great. But you need to ask them about it. What does that mean? What do you mean by that? ? Exactly. Does that mean you want me online ready to launch a new marketing campaign at two o'clock in the morning on a Sunday because mm-hmm. , I have heard stories of marketers messaging me and saying, this is what my company wants me to do.

Oh, I've had to pull up founders on this a lot. So I advise them of the company, and this actually happened recently. Mm-hmm. . And so I have to pull them up and say, that's not going to work long term. Mm-hmm. , if you like, if you have anything to. If you have anything you wanna produce, don't send it at 5:00 AM You're not gonna get the best quality work.

No, you are not. No. And it's surprising that people don't understand that. But that is, you know, my 2 cents on the red flag when it comes to Larissa, hopefully answering your question. Um, and a couple other things that you'll see in job description. Should we go to, uh, Jason's comment and then, or sorry, Mark's comment actually.

Thank you Jason, for your kind compliment though. Uh, and then we're almost at time here. . Yes. So I know Mark, uh, how many, how can we move, how can you move more into the web three space? How many job descriptions asking for years of web three experience? Mm-hmm. , it really is difficult because we've got a lot of web three experience, but we are like not normal.

Not many people do have years of web three experience. We ended up in it by chance as a lot of us who did early on did. Right. Does that make sense? Um, and so, yes. , I would say, and you agree with this, I know you do because we've discussed it before, that having the transferrable skills from Web two is way more important than having the web three experience.

Totally. And so I would say that that is always a negotiable in a job description. What would you say? Definitely negotiable. I think when it says they're looking for web three experience. What I have mostly seen is they're looking for somebody who understands the Web three ecosystem, where they will not need to hold this person's hand from start to finish when they join the company itself.

Now, they will still need to onboard you. No one can expect that you're gonna be ready to hit the ground running in 0.5 seconds on day one. Like that's not a normal expectation, even in web. But what they're looking for is ideally somebody, yes, who has worked in this industry, but there are so few of us that have actually worked in this industry.

And so you have a chance to go, all right, what skills are they really looking for? And how can I transfer it from web two, my web two, experience into web three, and start to build that narrative for yourself? Meaning the example I typically give is if you.  an event manager, right? Like I spent most of my career so far in, I'm a marketing generalist, but also field marketing, which focuses on events.

I did a huge number of events in web two corporate events, in web two conferences. And so when I went into my interview, I looked at, all right, how would I actually take the this conference experience and. Overlay it into web three, and that's the exact same advice that I give to folks is take a look at what, what your space is doing in web three, how your job may change, so you're ready to answer those questions.

And then how you would actually be able to perform your role in Web three given those changes. And once you're ready to answer those questions, it'll make your interviewer feel much more comfortable about.  potentially hiring you, offering you the role, negotiating, moving you through the different steps in the process, whatever it is.

But that's typically the advice that I give. Mm-hmm. , definitely. And I think it's also worth doing like a self audit of.  actually, I think understanding what you're applying to. So if you're applying to a protocol, right? Mm-hmm. , you need to do your own self-audit to understand how long is it gonna take me to understand what a protocol is, right?

I've been in this space a long time, and.  even. I struggle to understand what the fuck these protocols are doing. It's so technical and so outside of what I do in my life, it's very difficult to comprehend. So it's also worth doing your own check first before thinking about applying to these roles.

Totally. Um, and then there are a huge number of courses and materials available for you online. Videos for you to. Go and do your own educational research before you go into these interviews because I mean, I will guarantee that the folks from the people team that you end up talking to, they're not gonna be experts in web three either.

Like a lot of these people end up in, in web three roles. They understand it, but they're not gonna be experts. So you're not gonna be talking about like technical jargon in the first couple of interview rounds, but you're gonna have to be ready for it when you pass through those and you get to speaking to people who are in your role.

Um, exactly. So that's where. The courses, the glossaries that exist online, the, um, you know, the, you've got really good one, uh, glossary. Yeah, I'm sure. Did you have one? You still have one? Yeah. Yeah, I still have one. Um, it, you can find it on, I can drop it into this too. I won't wanna drop too many links.

Links, I promise. But I will drop my web through marketing course, but then also my web three, uh, glossary that I've created that will hopefully be helpful. And that goes over some like, you know, big acronyms and things that you'll find when you have conversations with folks, cuz like it is a whole new vocabulary that you end up needing to learn.

And. Produces confusion when you can have those conversations and you actually have the language in order to have those conversations. Definitely. And I think if you're currently looking for a job at the moment, I've, I've lots of people You probably do the same. Yeah. Of, I have lots of people coming to me and saying, Hey, do you know who's hiring?

I would say work with a headhunter or recruiter for web three, but especially because, especially if you're coming from web two, it really helps to have that support and they will help to understand really quickly if you would be a fit or not before you even waste your time going through interviews if it's not really a fit.

Um, and I know you've got third work as well, if you're like more contract. Third work is an awesome contracting option. It's specific to web three freelancers and contractors, and they hold your hand quite literally through the entire process. And they have some awesome connections, um, whether you are looking for a fractional role or, uh, not full-time roles, so it's fractional or freelance, but that's a good one.

Yeah, and I know that Lauren Ingram has got the women of web three job boards oh three, and I know they're, they're bringing on bigger brands. I think like external web two brands are hiring. So there's lots and lots of options. And so I would say don't try and do it all on your own. So if you are feeling a bit nervous, you don't really share what questions to ask.

See if you can have like a bit of a middle ground and work with someone. , absolutely. Those job boards are a great place to start. Yeah, definitely. I also did, I remember a podcast episode with Emily London on Yeah. From Crypto Recruiters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, I think we talked a few a bit, kind of a bit more, um, through her experience as a recruiter and like the things that she notices and, and I think we did a bit more on what questions to ask the founding.

So if that's something that you interested in, yeah, go and have a look. I can't remember what episode number it is. I'll, I'll drop it in that link as well. I actually saw it today cause I was looking at your podcast, uh, website. . Love it. Cool, cool. I didn't build that myself on tra bill to it. . He builds everything.

Gotta love Antron. Good. He's good at this stuff. That's why he's my co-founder, . Yeah, exactly. This is why you have him that many other reasons. Um, okay. If anyone has any like last minute questions that are shorter, you can drop him in the chat. Otherwise we should probably start to wrap up here. Um, thanks Mark for your comment.

I really appreciate. Uh, it has been so wonderful to chat with you, em as usual. But thank you all so much for being here. We are going to be back next Thursday or potentially on two be two weeks. Emily, can you can go cause I can't talk right now.  be back. We'll be back in two weeks time guys.  we'll be, we'll be back in two weeks time.

Not sure what the topic is, but if you wanna let us know what you wanna hear about, we are always open to suggestions. Yeah. Amazing. Thank you so much everybody. Thank you. Thank you. Bye Next time.